RESPONDING TO THE CRITICS: SAM FROST: UP SIDE DOWN – #2
NO ENTRANCE INTO THE MOST HOLY PLACE
UNTIL THE JUDGMENT OF BABYLON
Be sure to read the first installment of this series. Sam Frost, former preterist, wrote an article attempting to prove that Revelation is about the saints dying and going to heaven. That article is linked in the first installment of this series. He claims that all the righteous of all the ages, prior to the coming of Christ, died and went to heaven. For the record, so far as I can tell, although I posted that first article on numerous FaceBook pages, and particularly those commonly visited by Frost, he has not offered a keystroke of response.
Now, remember the previous point: the MHP represented heaven. Hebrews 6 proves this beyond any doubt. That alone fundamentally challenges (nullifies) Frost’s claims that the faithful entered heaven- the MHP – before Christ, the forerunner.
Directly related to the issue of “going to heaven” before the coming of the Lord is the identity of Babylon of Revelation. The relationship between entering heaven before the resurrection and the identity of Babylon is vital. According to Revelation no one could enter the Most Holy Place – heaven – until the judgment of Babylon.
Since the issue is how billions of believers could go to heaven, the Most Holy Place, before the Forerunner entered and prepared that place for them, let me add just a few more “fun facts” that strike at the heart of both the TIME and the NATURE of the parousia and the resurrection.
In Revelation 11:15 John saw the Ark of the Testimony in the Temple, meaning that the veil had been removed. However…
In chapter 15:8, we are told that “no man was able to enter into his temple, till the seven plagues of the seven angels was fulfilled.” I urge the readers to look again at Hebrews 9.
In Hebrews 9, no man could enter the MHP until Torah came to an end in total fulfillment.
In Revelation no man could enter the MHP until the judgment of Babylon.
Thus, Torah would endure, fully binding, until the judgment of Babylon.
Now, in FaceBook exchanges I have challenged Frost to deal with this. He has, to the present moment, refused. In fact, although Frost identified Babylon as Old Covenant Israel until fairly recently, realizing that this is a fatal position to take and still hold a futurist view, he has refused to identify Babylon, even though I asked him repeatedly to do so.
In fact, on FaceBook, 8-30-19, Frost commented on the Trumpets and the bowls in Revelation, making the following claim about the sealed seven thunders:
“Seven Seals has to do with the future, as do the Seven Trumpets, and the Seven Bowls….these are unsealed. Yet, Seven Thunders are simple things “to be kept hidden” according to Preston? If consistent, it is the future that is kept hidden (even though John saw it, and was prepared to write what he saw and heard). It is in this interval that “time shall come to an end”, implying that the events of the Seven Thunders revealed that.”
Here, Frost affirms that Revelation 10:7 speaks of an imaginary “end of time.”In reality, as the huge majority of commentators- and translations – note, the literal rendering should be “there shall be delay no longer.” It has nothing to do with an end of time. (I found only 11 translations that render it as “no more time,” and yet, the rest of their translation of the passage demands the “no more delay” rendering).
The amazing thing is that if Mr. Frost expects us to accept the “end of time” rendering, then since the seventh trump would sound at the time of the resurrection (Revelation 11:15f), which is inextricably tied to the judgment of the city “where the Lord was slain” then of contextual necessity, time had to have ended at the judgment of that city– i.e. Jerusalem! Mr. Frost has, as usual, entrapped himself.
Frost seems to be positing the fulfillment of the Trumpets and Bowls into the future (unless he was simply saying that their fulfillment was future to John, and not us. His language is a bit ambiguous. Hopefully, he will clarify this comments, but I suspect he will not do so. If he does, I will edit this article and reposed it with his clarification).
In response to his comments, I posted the following (9-3-19 & 9-4-19):
<<The seven bowls contained the wrath of God.
The seven bowls would be poured out in the judgment of Babylon.
Babylon was the city- “where the Lord was slain.”
It is the city that killed the prophets (16:6).
It is the city that killed the apostles and prophets of Jesus.
Now, Sam Frost, PLEASE IDENTIFY THE CITY BABYLON OF REVELATION– OKAY? (Caps for emphasis only).
I have asked you this question repeatedly over the last year or two, but to this date you have refused to answer.
How about it: PLEASE IDENTIFY THE CITY BABYLON OF REVELATION.>>
Folks, you just have to catch the power of Frost’s unwillingness to identify Babylon and the MHP! His long term refusal to do so is more than revealing! He knows that no other entity in history was guilty, or even could be guilty, of doing what Babylon in Revelation did! See my Who Is This Babylon? for a definitive demonstration of this.
The undeniable reality is that if Frost, or any futurist, admits that Babylon of Revelation was Old Covenant Jerusalem, then their futurist eschatology is false. The coming of the Lord, the judgment and the resurrection are all posited at the time of the judgment of that great Harlot City.
Keep in mind that Revelation 15:8 says that there would be no entrance into the Most Holy Place until the Wrath of God, contained in the seven vials / bowls was poured out in the judgment of Babylon.
Just like Frost refuses to identify Babylon, he likewise has refused to tell us what the MHP was / is, at least he has refused to clearly identify it as heaven. This in spite of repeated efforts to get him to do so.
As we continue Responding to the Critics, take note of what Josephus, who was a first century Jew, of the priestly family, and thus intimately familiar with all things concerning the temple, had to say about the symbolism of the Temple, and particularly the Most Holy:
“However, this proportion of the measures of the tabernacle proved to be an imitation of the system of the world: for the third part thereof which was within the four pillars, to which the priests were not admitted, is, as it were, a Heaven peculiar to God; but the space of the twenty cubits, is, as it were, sea and land, on which men live, and so this is peculiar to the priests only…” (Josephus, Antiquities, Whiston Translation, Bk. 3, chapter 6:4, (P. 87).
For Frost’s claims to have any validity, he must be able to show that Josephus did not know what he was talking about, and that he, Frost, knows more about the meaning of the temple than a first century priest who almost undoubtedly served in that Temple!
Let’s examine Revelation a bit more closely on this issue of the Most Holy Place and Babylon.
No man could enter the MHP until the Wrath of God, contained in the seven vials, would be poured out (Revelation 15:8).
The seven plagues of the seven angels would be fulfilled in the outpouring of the seven vials of God’s wrath (16:17f).
The last bowl / plague would be poured out in the judgment of Babylon (v. 17-21).
The judgment of Babylon – the pouring out of the seventh plague- would be at the coming of “the King of kings and the Lord of lords”– Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God- (Revelation 19). But of course, take note that the appearance of the Son, bears no resemblance whatsoever to the 5′ 5″ Incarnate Jesus in his body of humiliation that Mr. Frost demands.
This coming of the King of kings in the judgment of Babylon and the pouring out of the seventh vial would be in vindication of all the martyrs, all the blood shed on the earth, the blood of that apostles and prophets of Jesus (16:16ff / 18:20-24). When did Jesus say that all the blood shed on the earth, including the blood if his apostles and prophets would be avenged? In his generation in the judgment of Jerusalem (Matthew 23)! (You must realize that Mr. Frost, following in the footsteps of the Dispensational world, now radically redefines “this generation” to mean “offspring”).
This coming of the King of kings for the avenging of the blood of the saints is a direct citation of Deuteronomy 32:43– a prediction that in Israel’s last days. God would avenge the blood of His saints. This means that where ever you posit the destruction of “Babylon” and the avenging of the blood of the saints, Israel as a covenant people and her “last days” will extend to that time.
To deny that Babylon of Revelation was Old Covenant Jerusalem, Frost must identify what other city was, “where the Lord was slain” (Revelation 11:8). That is, of course, impossible to do.
He must ignore the fact that ONLY ONE CITY ever killed Old Covenant prophets (Rev. 16:6)- that was Old Covenant Jerusalem (Luke 13:33). Jerusalem is the city that Jesus said he would send his “apostles, prophets and wise men” to, and Jerusalem would kill them (Matthew 23:31f).
He must ignore the fact that Jesus no only identified Old Covenant Jerusalem as the city guilty of killing the prophets, they would kill him, and, they would kill his apostles and prophets, and that Revelation describes Jerusalem as the city that did those very things. There is literally no other city of any other time or any other place that committed those heinous crimes.
He must ignore the fact that Jesus said that “all the blood shed on the earth” all the way back to creation, would be avenged in the AD 70 judgment (Revelation 18:20, 24– a citation of Matthew 23).
He must ignore the fact that this coming of the Lord of lords, would be in fulfillment of God’s Old Covenant promises, made to Old Covenant Israel, about things to be fulfilled in HER LAST DAYS– not the end of time, not the end of the Christian age.
He must, of course, completely ignore the inspired time statements– given by the Father who knew the Day and the Hour– that the fulfillment of Revelation and the coming of the King of kings was at hand. Lamentably, we have Mr. Frost on record telling us that he simply does not care what the Bible says about the time of fulfillment! Do you catch that? Frost says he does not care what the Bible says about the time of fulfillment! This is such a stunning, sad and revealing comment by Frost.
In the next installment of Responding to the Critics, we will begin looking at the logical applications of Frost’s claims in his article and in his FaceBook posts. You will quickly come to realize that Sam Frost’s eschatology is indeed upside down.